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Posted by Endymion 10 months ago

*As I'm using Elsa's spreadsheet for damage numbers, they are all assuming 1100IP weapons


Broadsword (Mighty Blow): So here we have the single target alternative to the clarent blade, cool. However the slight damage increase is not favourable enough to ever consider bringing it over a clarent blade. At 1100 IP and 3 stacks a clarent blade deals 708 6m AoE dmg while the broadsword only deals 880 single target melee range dmg (aproximately 20% more). The math here is simple, even if the clarent blade only hits two people every other time (super easy to do, even in a 5v5) it is still better than bringing a broadsword. Sure the broadsword also gets a resistance buff, but at only 3 seconds it's hardly worth mentioning. Looking at other single target nukes in the game (Snipe, Death curse) they deal about 1100-1400 dmg from range.

Proposed changes: Increase the damage on the broadsword by about 20%, increase the resistance buff duration by about 50% or replace it with some other effect.


Fierce Strike: So this spell deals 263 damage, the other Q deals a total of 295 dmg AND applies a healing debuff stack, which is necessary for a few of the E spells in the Ax line.........................................

Proposed changes: The simple change would be to add the debuff stacks to this Q as well, but then you would have essentially two of the same Qs (just one deals some of its damage as a bleed). You could also increase the damage on fierce strike, but then it still wouldn't interact with Halberd or Battleaxe. The best solution here would probably be to add in some sort of stackable effect that also interacts with those weapons, whether it's also a healing debuff at a slightly different timer or % or something else like a resistance debuff.

Battleaxe (Vampiric Stike): Overall this ax is considered a dueling weapon, some of the things preventing it from being competitive in a fight are the following: needing to build and maintain rending strikes, they at least don't fall off when you use your E but it's still a challenge. Additionally the heal gained is simply not enough to be able to keep you in a dangerous position, especially compared to the total damage gained from doing so.

Proposed changes: An easier way to change the problem with fierce strike not affecting battleaxe or halberd is to actually remove the stacking abilities on these skills themselves. Instead of giving health based on stacks, it could return health based on percentage of damage dealt (after armor), about 80% and additionally up the damage dealt on the E by about 10%.

Halberd (Rending Swing): This ability has some nice effects but is very conditional in nature depending on whether or not you happen to have a stack on the guy that happens to walk into the middle of the rest of their team. It simply isn't reactive enough to take advantage of poor enemy positioning in the way that say a clarent blade might be able too.

Proposed changes: Make the ability function like infernal scythe/clarent (self cast AoE), remove the rending strike condition and the rending strike application. Essentially 1hit infernal scythe with healing debuff in place of the second swing.

Greataxe (Whirlwind): This is a decent damage ability that always seems to do absolutely nothing. There are so many counters to this ability due to it being a channel that needs to move with few added benefits to the user. The Iron-Clad at least interrupts when it spins, making it somewhat difficult for people to use their own interrupts on the iron clad. With the great axe you can just cc him, use a defensive, run away, or blow him up with your own skills.

Proposed changes: Reduce the movespeed buff to 10% and add in a 10% slow for ~1 second on hit. This should afford the great ax at least some catch to keep up with runners and CC to contribute a teamfight


Bedrock Mace (Brute Force): This ability is quite difficult to use. It requires lining up sporadic and sometimes laggy elements, and often doesn't really result in what you would like it to. At the same time to use it for maximum effectiveness you want to hit your target towards the rest of their team, but for most singe target CC spell you actually want them to go /away/ from the rest of their team. This dichotomy results in some awkward situations and often has people trying to use it like a glaive.

Proposed changes: Change it from a single target knockback to an AoE melee range (maybe the size of heavy cleave?) knockback (similar to arcane orb) that stuns targets on landing, remove the stun for enemies hit along the way. This would unify the purpose of the skill, a really good disengage in 5v5, or a team splitter in ZvZ.


Tombhammer (Grasp of the Dead): This is a super long root, and simply put it couldn't really do it better. Unfortunately though, a simple root isn't super effective outside of ZvZ(where it will most likely be cleansed) especially considering people can still use their assassin shoes or whatever to reposition themselves to avoid follow up AoE damage.
Proposed changes: Decrease the duration on the root and add in another CC effect like a 40% slow that lasts twice as long, potentially add in a decent DoT effect to put pressure on them while they are rooted.

Forge Hammers (Giant Steps): This ability seems to be antithetical to everything that a tank or the rest of the hammer line does. It gives an AD to one of the lowest DPS melee auto-attacks in the game. The slow is ok, but has no follow up from the rest of the hammer line. Your best combo is slowing charge into a slow effect while you chase them around with your wet noodle.

Proposed changes: Get rid of the AD and armor buff effects. Put in something more useful like: A pulsating stun effect every second that stuns nearby enemies for 1 second every second.


Auto Fire: This spell is barely better than dealing Auto Attacks, and it costs mana, can be easily interrupted, and prevents you from weaving in spells.

Proposed changes: Fires a single shot which applies a debuff (stacking up to 10 times) onto the target which makes the next auto fire attack deal 10% more damage.

Knockback Shot: This is one of a few single target knockbacks in the game, but after cc resistance it barely generates enough distance to keep pressure on someone.

Proposed changes: Increase range to 11m to put in line with the rest of crossbow skills. Decrease cooldown by about 20-40%

Caltrops: A single target slow, essentially doing the same thing as knockback shot, but slightly worse than it. It has a really short cooldown but is still difficult to use repetitively.

Proposed changes: Change it to an AoE slow (maybe about the size of the explosive mine). Increase both the effect duration and CD by about 450%

Weeping Repeater (Explosive Mine): This fulfills the same role as the light crossbow (AoE pressure) whilst having a slightly wonkier mechanic. The mine mechanic itself seems rather underwhelming, as I don't see any reason why you wouldn't simply place the mine underneath your enemy.

Proposed changes: Make the skill more unique and take advantage of the trap mechanic. Change the cast time to 2 seconds and remove the cooldown, make the mines last for about 20-30 seconds, Decrease AoE range by about 10% and decrease damage by about 70%. Those provides more opportunities for the repeater to make itself unique and combo with other weapons. Alternatively you could just up the dmg or lower the CD to put it on par with the light crossbow...


Multishot: The melee range on this ability is just killer. You can frost jump back further than this ability shoots, meaning if you're using it to kill mobs (the only thing it's good for) you have to keep running in closer to deal damage with it.

Proposed changes: Make the cone narrower and longer, up to the point that it is 11m long but covers the same area.

Explosive Arrows: This spell deals a total of 415 small AoE dmg after 5 attacks, during which time it can be purged or leashed out of attack range. Frost bomb deals 524 in one hit, to a large ground target with a slow effect, can't be purged or leashed, and is on a shorter cooldown. Fire ball also deals about 400 instant AoE damage, plus a DoT at a longer range on a shorter CD and also can't be leashed or purged and is sent to a target location.

Proposed changes: increase damage by 30% reduce cooldown by 5sec.

Speed Shot: The speed boost will give you about an additional 8m of travel distance, compared to a frost shot which jumps 9m has a slowing effect and also deals damage on a shorter CD.

Proposed changes: Reduce the CD to 10seconds, increase dmg or add in slow effect (about 10%) or increase the buff duration by about 20%.

Bow (Enchanted Quiver): The ability to build and maintain the 6 stacks before resistance shred is absolutely critical to this skill. This can be compared to a clarent blade which also has to build up the heroic charges for maximum benefit on the E spell. One would think that being ranged makes keeping up stacks easier on the bow, however that is incorrect. For starters, if a bow is properly positioned they will need to travel just as far as a melee character to switch targets or to chase down a kiting one, however they don't have the advantage of the speedboost from the q stacks. Secondly it the bow has to build up a total of 6 stacks, compared to the clarent's 3, during which time they can be purged or lost. Finally if the bow has its stacks fall off it is way more punishing as the rest of their enchanted quiver is now useless and they have to wait for a much longer cooldown. Compare these to other weapons which can keep their stacks on indefinitely (spear), and even using the skill is a challenge in and of itself.

Proposed changes: Get rid of the stacking drop off, or at least increase it's timer by 100%. The arrow stacks don't affect anything other than auto-attacks which trigger the next stacks anyways, so there's no real need to make it more complicated.

Longbow (Rain of Arrows): Let's compare this one to a glacial staff, as they have pretty similar effects. For starters glacial is 2 second cast fire and forget, whereas longbow is channeled. Since this is the case, the longbow effect ought to be way more awesome than the glacial staff, right? Glacial does 143 DPS and slows by 30%. Longbow does 147 DPS and slows by 20%. Longbow hits 6 times, glacial hits 12. Glacial AoE travels, whereas longbow's is stationary. The ONLY thing which is slightly better on the longbow is the cooldown which is 15 seconds instead of 30.

Proposed changes: Increase damage by 100% or remove the channel and increase damage by 20%



Nature Staff (Circle of Life): This ability depends on getting rejuvenation stacks up, however the cooldown is only 15 seconds. If you're using rejuvenation you'll only be able to get 2/3 maximum effectiveness out of it, assuming that you time all of your stacks perfectly and your healing targets don't run away from you. Realistically you're more likely to be only able to keep max stacks on two people which is about 50% effectiveness. Using mushrooms you'll only be able to get maximum effectiveness if you can cast your mushroom on everyone. Realistically you'll probably only get max stacks on two people, same as rejuvenation. The healing in this case is about 50% as effective as a wild staff in addition to stripping your burst heal targets from their HoTs.

Proposed changes: Remove the removal of rejuvenation charges.

Blight Staff (Ruthless Nature): Reflect is being fixed in the patch, so we'll see if this ability is any bit useful at all. However it has less reflect than demon armor and the heal is about the same as a wild staff.

Proposed changes: Increase the reflect to about 50 or 60%, increase the duration by about 25% and reduce the heal by about 20% (so that it doesn't just simply outclass a wild staff).


Sunder Armor: I feel like at this point the effectiveness of Dagger Qs has been heavily discussed by others, so I'll just link this thread.…d/72522-Daggers/?pageNo=1

Assassin Spirit:…d/72522-Daggers/?pageNo=1

Throwing Blades: The ability is ok and the stacks are pretty well balanced, assuming you can actually get the stacks. The hard part here is actually hitting unique targets with direction that blades go, especially if you're fighting someone in a choke.

Proposed changes: Remove the unique target condition and/or make the blades spread narrower.

Dash: Decent skill, but it is literally just a dash with no other added benefit. Hammers have a dash on the W that also slows (at a slightly longer range as well).

Proposed changes: Buff the range by about 30% (could be unbalanced in OW) or add something to it, e.g makes you invisible for the duration of the dash, gives you a 10%damage bonus for 4 seconds after dash.

Dagger (Poison Coating): As discussed in my armor thread (here) building for additional damage over additional attackspeed provides for marginally less damage on this spell (about 30 before armor) but also additionally benefits any other damage spells you might have. Overall the damage on this spell is rather low, not much point in trying different builds, and the energy cost exceptionally high. This spell has the highest energy cost for a 15sec cooldown E by quite a huge margin.

Proposed changes: Make the effect last longer and decrease the damage buff slightly. Reduce mana consumption. Potentially also look at changing it from additional magic damage on hit to an AA damage bonus


Cartwheel: A rather interesting Q, it's one of a few that doesn't just deal damage. However the range is short, cooldown is long, CC minimal, and bonus effect conditional.

Proposed changes: Decrease CD by about 30%. Potentially increase the range on the roll and/or lower the speed of the roll.

Heavy Cleave: So hammers and maces also have this ability (which is pretty darn hard to land with the .5s cast time. But for some reason the ability deals way less damage on the quarterstaff, even though hammers have lockdown that makes landing it way more likely.

Proposed changes: Get rid of it and replace it with a new W. Empowered slam has nearly the same function but does it way better.

Quarterstaff (Separator): A unique ability that could have a lot of potential, but doesn't quite pan out. First off, in order to make this ability useful you need to run into melee distance of a group of clumped up enemies (really not likely to happen) and then the area of effect is ridiculously tiny.

Proposed changes: Give the ability a gap closer, like the claymore. Increase the AoE of the knockback significantly, about the size of the Arcane Orb explosion should do.

Black Monk Staff (Fatal Blade): Great combo potential in this ability, however very little to follow through with on the rest of the Quarterstaff, it generally results in you doing very little after your pull super cool pull.

Proposed changes: Increase the range slightly or reduce the cool down a little bit. Add in a CC effect after the pull like a slow.

General Playstyle: There are too many long CDs on this weapon, unlike other tank weapons which have some CC that keeps the enemy occupied for a while, with the exception of stun run every ability on the QS is essentially instant hit and done. It results in a lot of just standing around or just AAing not doing much.


Ignite: This spell deals 643 damage, half of which is on a DoT, compared to the 524 Intsant AoE damage from a frost bomb. Simply put this isn't enough damage to compensate for being only single target.

Proposed changes: Increase damage by 20-30%

Fire Ball: Flat out deals less damage than frost bomb and has a similar amount of prep time. (cast time + fireball travel time).

Proposed changes: increase damage by 10%, make it explode on hitting the enemy, or upon reaching a ground target (similar to the crossbow Q).

Fire Staff (Pyroblast): Deals significantly less damage compared to other single target nukes, e.g the crossbow snipe has only a 1 second longer cast time but has a longer range, deals more damage, and deals more of it as instant damage.

Proposed changes: Increase damage by 10-15%, turn the DoT to instant damage.

Great Fire Staff (Flame Pillar): Deals less damage than frost bomb, takes a similar time to charge up and has a smaller AoE, cost's nearly twice as much energy and doesn't have a slow effect.

Proposed changes: Increase damage by 20%, Make the AoE 20% bigger, Reduce mana cost, and add in a DoT effect.


Resurrection: This ability can only be used in the yellow zone, what is the point? Only reason I can see to have this ability in the game is because we don't have a proper place to train for group fights, so we need to use this so we don't have to wait 3minutes after every engagement after training. This is also pretty lame because you need a level 70 holy healer with your group just standing there watching.

Proposed changes: Get rid of it. If not at least make it useful outside of yellow zones. Make it able to revive a Dead body after a long cast time with some sort of summoning sickness or whatever.

Divine Staff (Divine Protection): This ability just doesn't do enough to keep someone, or the rest of the team alive. The shield is obviously way weaker than arcane shields or living armor (maybe not after the patch)

Proposed changes: make the sheild last longer, or turn it into a hybrid between the enigmatic and the pulsating heal ability where a small shield and a small AoE heal are applied to the target every second.


Arcane Purge: While it does seem to be the case that Soul artifact helmets are slightly better than weapon counterpart spells with a longer CD, the 1s additional cast time on the arcane purge make timing rather difficult, especially when most buff worth purging last only 4 seconds.

Proposed changes: Reduce cast time by 50%

Arcane Staff (Arcane Orb): This little ball travels exceptionally slow. Additionally the silence effect is nearly pointless as it lasts barely longer than the time for targets to finish their knockback animation.

Proposed changes: Increase travel speed of the orb. Apply the silence after enemies have hit the ground, or make the silence 10-20% longer.

Witchwork Staff (Black Hole): The AoE on this weapon is rather small (smaller than the actual visual effect of the skill it would seem). While the effects are nice, actually landing the skill on multiple targets is rather difficult without having some sort of pull effect... which is what this skill is.

Proposed changes: Increase the size of the AoE by about 30-40%. Reduce the duration of the slow accordingly.


Hoarfrost: Compared to frostbolt this spell has a significantly longer cast time, deals the same damage on hit (meaning less damage overall), doesn't have an additional effect (the slow) and is rather unlikely to do splash damage due to the size of the AoE.

Proposed changes: Increase the damage by 20% and increase the splash damage radius by 50%. Note that this ability is currently balanced with fire bomb, meaning any changes here should also result in a change over there.

Frost Nova: A melee ability on a ranged weapon. The CC on this spell is simply not worth the risk of getting in close to use it, and won't really help you much when kiting.

Proposed changes: Change from being a root effect to a frozen effect (like on the hoarfrost). Increase the damage slightly.


Cursed Sickle: This ability is wonky, difficult to use, and just an AoE version of the vile curse on a longer CD.

Proposed changes: Instead of a boomerang, make the ability cast like the throwing blades on daggers.

Desecrate: More vile curse stacks! Why? The only weapon in the curse line that benefits from adding more vile curses is 1H curse and that one doesn't really have much benefit from running in close. The only curse staff that benefits from a root is cursed skull, but even then the root AoE doesn't match the skull AoE and won't last long enough to keep someone it.

Proposed changes: Rework the ability a little. Change the ability to a pulsating root that deals damage each time it hits. Alternatively turn it into a cone based attack.

Curse Staff (Death Curse): The timing on this skill is awkward, make it way harder to land than it needs to be. You need to land the death curse, and then you also need to land another vile curse afterwards in order to keep stacks up.

Proposed changes: Shorten the time it takes for the death curse to proc after it's triggered.

Great Cursed Staff (Area of Decay): More vile curse stacks! We're really bent on making the Q ability worthless, aren't we?

Proposed changes: Just make players take damage while inside the area, or have it apply it's own unique DoT.

Lifecurse Staff (Enfeeble Blades): It takes too long to build up stacks, when most people just inevitably run away from it and avoid the damage.

Proposed changes: Change max stacks to 5 and damage reduction per stack to 10%.

Cursed Skull (Haunting Screams): This ability has less base damage than enfeeble blades and rather than adding a useful effect like damage reduction it adds a little bit of true health damage. Cursed skull is additionally hampered by being rooted in place for the duration of the channel, whereas the enfeeble blades can be cast on anyway, and they can move around to deal damage. The only advantage cursed skull has over enfeeble blades is that it can't be interrupted.

Proposed changes: Increase base damage by 30% and decrease cd by 10 seconds.

SEVERAL DIFFERENT WEAPONS: Another thing which seems to be really underpowered is interrupts such as on swords/maces or heavy crossbow. The reasoning for this seems to be twofold: There are relatively few abilities with long cast times or channels and every forced movement effect in the game + silence + stun are also interrupts, which makes running anything interruptable undesirable compared to running an instant cast spell.

Proposed changes: Make it so forced movement effects (Pulls and knockbacks) do not interrupt spell casting.

Thanks for reading please leave any comments or suggestions below. Let me know if there are any other weapons/skills that should be added to this list.

**Note that I started working on this list before Joseph was patched onto the test server and as such I left off any abilities which were set to be buffed for Joseph. I will hopefully also make a thread for feedback on balance changes for Joseph after doing some more playtesting.

Posted by Retroman 9 months ago (Source)

Dethcord wrote:

Where can we hope to get the next balancing patch? Is it coming in 3 months or will we see something inbetween those?
@Retroman, @Korn
The next Balance Patch is scheduled with the next major content update.

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